...of course some will still attempt to slander all Muslims for the poor acts of the few.
Published on November 24, 2006 By Deference In Politics


I've a few Muslim friends. Two of them live here in Jefferson City. They are both extremely mild mannered, polite, and quiet gentlemen. I've come to appreciate their overall demeanor and they take my ribbing of them being 'terrorist A-rabs' quite well. Of course, they've known me for years now, and understand that the running joke is not actually at their expense but at the expense of stereotypical midwesterners who like to eye down my buddies as if they are actually going to suddenly take off their shoelaces and attempt to strangle the nearest immodestly-dressed white woman on the street while screaming 'ALLAH AKBAR!'

In nearby Columbia, I had another friend who owned a small string of coffee shops in the region. The location in Columbia was known as 'OSAMA's ', - though Osama is a very common name in the Middle East, it's a cultural lightning rod in the Middle West. Osama's is continually vandalized, despite the fact that it's in the middle of the downtown area near the MU campus in the center of a city containing ~80,000 citizens.

This behaviour and the comments I often run afoul of here at JU are embarressing reminders of how culturally isolated many of us still are and how susceptible we can be to manipulation by others looking for traction for their political views. The continued fearmongering (Terrorist Muslims are going to take over the world and mass convert you all!) would be highly entertaining if the true believers weren't so strong in their convictions - using 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings as springboards to protect and advance popular political bullshit propaganda. This is the reason why it is very difficult to speak sanely with those parroting the 'Terrorist Muslim' mantra. I have a very difficult time trying to divide the ignorant from the politically motivated - it seems just a bit too convenient that every time this issue comes up, those pushing 'Muslims are after us ALL!!!' usually:

A) Don't actually know any Muslims,

Are incredibly localized...and

C) Voted for the same President twice because they were a part of the ABD (Anyone But a Democrat - no matter how bad the candidate is!) crowd . A President, who, though he was elected twice, is less popular then his father who served only one term.

Only one in four Americans believe President Bush is a better president than his father, George H. W. Bush, a new CNN poll has found.

Six in 10 said the elder Bush, who served one term from 1989-1993, did a better job in office, according to a poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation.

Poll: More Americans Prefer Bush's Father
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/21/bush.poll/index.html?eref=yahoo

I thought of Osama and the Khans when I read the below article and checked out the poll. It's nothing they don't already know, but it may serve to remind them that they are part of a religion of peace, and to forget their resentment against those that treat them as Magna Ultra Extremist killer Muslims, instead of who they really are - people.


UK survey at odds with Government over terror

Thursday November 16, 2006
By Robert Verkaik

LONDON - Claims by MI5 and the Government that large numbers of young Muslims support terrorism are countered in a new survey that shows less than 1 per cent of the Islamic community sympathise with the actions of the 7/7 London bombers.

The findings are published in the wake of a speech made by Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, director-general of MI5, in which she said that opinion polls indicated that over 100,000 of British citizens consider the July attacks were justified.

The new survey: Muslim views: Foreign policy and its effects, was carried out across the Muslim community in October and concludes that there is almost no support for terrorism amongst the Muslim community with just 1 per cent of those surveyed supporting the 7/7 London bombings.



[WWW Link
Comments (Page 1)
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on Nov 24, 2006
Comments are welcome, troll turds will be swept away.
on Nov 24, 2006
" The continued fearmongering (Terrorist Muslims are going to take over the world and mass convert you all!) "

While the Koran may proclaim that they should do such, and I admit there are some out there that are very fanatical, and would gladly blow us up, etc......I feel most muslims, the moderate ones, and even some hard core ones...just want to live life.

They just want to live, that's all. I mean, it's the same with the Muslim friends I have. They came to the United States so they could live, and prosper. Not to get all "jihad" on people.

"using 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings as springboards to protect and advance popular political bullshit propaganda"

Yeah, using any horrific event for personal gain is just....blegh, in my book.

"Voted for the same President twice because they were a part of the ABD (Anyone But a Democrat - no matter how bad the candidate is!) crowd "

I know many people like that....sadly.
on Nov 24, 2006
Personally I've never had a problem with any Muslims, and I live in the East End of London, which has the highest concentration of Muslims in the UK. None of them have ever tried to convert me (or kill me for that matter, touch wood). Curiously the only people that have tried to "convert" me are my baptist Christian friends, who for some reason ignore my Anglican baptism. well at least they don't try to kill me either

Just on the UK survey and speech, they aren't actually contradictory, since the 100,000 people that apparently supported the bombings also fits into the 1% support figure.
on Nov 24, 2006
...Anglican baptism. - Darth Silliness

I'm Episcopalian, we aren't far removed.

Thanks for your thoughts, guys, it's good to know not everyone has gone off the deep end regarding this topic.

While the Koran may proclaim that they should do such, and I admit there are some out there that are very fanatical, and would gladly blow us up, etc......I feel most muslims, the moderate ones, and even some hard core ones...just want to live life. - SilentPoet

It is the extreme clerics (mullahs) who 'interpret' (most incorrectly) the Koran and instruct their followers who are to blame for giving (particularly Sunni) Muslims a bad reputation. Sunnis will tell you that Shia Muslims aren't actually Muslims because they have perverted a passage in the Koran to justify some Jihad. Only when the religion is seen as under attack (i.e. troops coming down the hill toward a Muslim community) are Muslims supposed to defend the religion with force. They are never to use it in a preemptive manner. And yes, every Muslim I know has been peaceful and has simply tried to get by within the 'Land of opportunity'.

I can see how some Muslims may feel it is justified to attack current occupying forces - partly due to the bombings, Depleted Uranium and the high civilian casualties, but there must be a better way for them to deal with 'occupiers'.

One of the 'Khans'(and yes, every time he gets agitated about something I whip out the old Star Trek 'Wrath of Kahn' joke)mentioned that Muslim / Arab culture wants very badly to be left alone; they don't want any part of our culture, because it is seen as too liberal and lasvicious. They don't want to be 'corrupted', and they have little interest in becoming a part of the global economy and playing well with others. They just want to be left alone. Yet, some of us continually wish to go 'Crusade' on their butts and it only ever ends with more wasted troops and money.
on Nov 25, 2006
Muslims tell pollsters that they support terrorism, then polls aren't reliable. Muslims tell pollsters that they DON'T support terrorism, then polls smash stereotypes. Come on. I could waste time reiterating the things you'd say if the poll went the other way, but then you already know the pitch, right?
on Nov 25, 2006
"Come on. I could waste time reiterating the things you'd say if the poll went the other way..." - BakerStreet

That's untrue.

Comparing multiple polls provides a broader context. That's good. I invite any pertinent polls you would have to offer.

I don't think polls were the issue, they were only given as factual sources to aide readers in gaining that broader view and understanding my comprehension and interpretation of some of what is to be read when one is attempting to swim through what is the news for today.







on Nov 25, 2006

LONDON - Claims by MI5 and the Government that large numbers of young Muslims support terrorism are countered in a new survey that shows less than 1 per cent of the Islamic community sympathise with the actions of the 7/7 London bombers.

The findings are published in the wake of a speech made by Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, director-general of MI5, in which she said that opinion polls indicated that over 100,000 of British citizens consider the July attacks were justified.

The new survey: Muslim views: Foreign policy and its effects, was carried out across the Muslim community in October and concludes that there is almost no support for terrorism amongst the Muslim community with just 1 per cent of those surveyed supporting the 7/7 London bombings.


Sorry, but 1% of what? 1% can end up being a rather large group of people. That along with the fact that 100,000 Brits thought the attack was justified.
on Nov 25, 2006
"Sorry, but 1% of what? 1% can end up being a rather large group of people. That along with the fact that 100,000 Brits thought the attack was justified."


2001 census said 1,536,015 muslims in England and wales. 1% of that is 15,360 or so. Not 100k, mind you, but not insignificant, either. I still don't buy the idea that you'd get an accurate reading on such a controversial question, though.

Given the environment of suspicion in the US and UK, how many Muslims would you think would admit publicly to support such, even to someone doing a poll? 10%? If only 10% admit it, that would be well over 100k total. Maybe they don't, but do we assume innocence until guilt is proven on other issues?

A while back a lot of people made a stink over the Senate campaign ad associating Ford with a white bimbo, saying that it took advantage of the inherent racism there in TN. How many people in TN can you assume would admit to having that attitude on the phone, and that attitude isn't illegal. But we're supposed to believe people would admit to supporting terrorism?

LOL... we have to assume southerners to be racists when we make an attack ad, but we can't assume muslims to be closet supporters of terrorism. How we pick and choose...
on Nov 26, 2006
2001 census said 1,536,015 muslims in England and wales. 1% of that is 15,360 or so. Not 100k, mind you, but not insignificant, either. - Bakerstreet

Credit and thanks to Bakerstreet for doing the homework. I wanted to answer drmiler's very appropriate question by sourcing the methodology used by the survey itself but never does it anywhere explicitly state how many people were surveyed.

Here is the survey in HTML;

WWW Link">Link

But we're supposed to believe people would admit to supporting terrorism? - Bakerstreet

I thought that was the point of the poll given in Brad's Religion of Peace Update: November 2006

WWW Link
on Nov 27, 2006

Polls of Muslims in a variety of country demonstrates that significant percentages of them (i.e. double digit %'s) believe suicide bombings are justifiable to defend Islam.

And so YOUR response is to essentially label those who read the poll and conclude that significant percentages of Muslims (i.e. double digit %'s) believe that suicide bombings are justifiable to defend Islam are somehow a bunch of naive yokels?

Would you care to put up YOUR travel experience against mine, Def?  If you want to have a "who is more worldly" comparison, I'm all over that.  Don't sit around and take on the air of quiet superiority and toss off those who don't share your views as a bunch of unenlightened primitives unless you're willing to put up your own enlightened bonafides.  How many Islamic nations have you traveled in? How many months/years have you spent in them? How many other countries have you visited?

Speaking of stereotypes, your post is a good textbook example of the problem with the American left.  Those who disagree with you aren't simply wrong. They are wrong because they're a bunch of unelightened, stupid, provincial rednecks. 

If only you could..somehow educate us then we too would see the obviousness of your wisdom and opinions.

But by all means, if you want to get into a bonafides comparison, let's do it.  But if I were in your shoes, I'd be trying to address the poll results (i.e. what exactly was invalid about the poll I showed? A single poll from Britain does nothing to counter what I posted and certainly doesn't justify your rather nasty insinuations of those whose opinions you don't share) rather than attacking me personally as somehow being some ignorant provincial. 

 

on Nov 27, 2006
"I thought that was the point of the poll given in Brad's Religion of Peace Update: November 2006"


Last I heard supporting Hamas wasn't a crime in Middle Eastern countries. Donate money knowingly to them in the US or UK and it is. You think you can weigh the responses by people in Palestine with the same weight as people in the UK?

In this political climate I would imagine you'd get about as much accuracy as if you asked if people supported child molestation.
on Nov 27, 2006
My article rests on its own merits and does not require yours to be wrong. My experiences and travels do not need comparison to yours for me to draw very correct conclusions separete from yours.

"rather than attacking me personally as somehow being some ignorant provincial."
- Drag

You've jumped to a lot of conclusions. This is the worst. Your name is never mentioned, you are never referred to within the article. Unless of course you see yourself meeting these requirements

A) Don't actually know any Muslims,

Are incredibly localized...and

C) Voted for the same President twice because they were a part of the ABD (Anyone But a Democrat - no matter how bad the candidate is!) crowd . A President, who, though he was elected twice, is less popular then his father who served only one term.


But you are a worldly man, so much so that you'd like to compare your travels to mine to prove once and for all who is right and who is wrong, so I guess you, despite all possible wishing, don't apply.

Oh, and I'm just such a hardcore lefty too, get off that lame kick. You know it drives me nuts. (He doesn't agree with me - he's a liberal - get him!!!)

But we're supposed to believe people would admit to supporting terrorism? - Bakerstreet

I thought that was the point of the poll given in Brad's Religion of Peace Update: November 2006. - Deference

I think that was your point, Brad, pure and simple. If there's nothing wrong with that viewpoint, why are you being so defensive about it?
on Nov 27, 2006
You're twisting my words. Why shouldn't people in the middle east admit it? You really think you can equate the attitude toward terrorism in Palestine to the attitudes in the UK? You're comparing apples to oranges. Of course Muslims in Britain wouldn't want to admit to supporting terrorism.
on Nov 27, 2006
You're twisting my words. - BakerStreet

No. I only gave my opinion of what you said. I did not attempt to alter them in any fashion. Good luck with the double team.


i.e. what exactly was invalid about the poll I showed?
- Drag

I never used my survey to disprove yours. Sorry you feel that way. This is what I said when Bakerstreet broached that topic.


Comparing multiple polls provides a broader context. That's good. I invite any pertinent polls you would have to offer. - Deference

So why did I include a poll in the first place?

I don't think polls were the issue, they were only given as factual sources to aide readers in gaining that broader view and understanding my comprehension and interpretation of some of what is to be read when one is attempting to swim through what is the news for today. - Deference


on Nov 27, 2006
It's not a matter of double teaming. You are saying that because a smaller number of people in the UK claim to support terrorism, that it effects the results of polls taken in Palestine.

Your post most certainly wanted to draw comparisons, because you talk about 'slander' in the subtitle. Even if your poll is accurate, that's still 15,000+ Muslims that openly support terrorism. You really think that there aren't more who simply fear speaking out in a nation where terrorism is anathema?

So, your title is:

Muslims Shake Stereotype in Latest Poll


I'd have to ask, how? 15,000 muslims openly supporting terrorism doesn't strike you as a fairly large number, especially given the obvious threat to people who would admit such?
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